More from the definition wars.
As the debate over immigration rages from Washington to Winston-Salem, there’s a lot of discussion about what to call the people in the United States who are not legally entitled to be here.
The National Association of Hispanic Journalists is asking news organizations to refrain from using the phrase “illegal alien” and the shorthand “illegals” in favor of “undocumented worker” or “undocumented immigrant.”
NAHJ suggests that illegal implies a criminal wrong, when immigration status is a civil violation, and that alien used to mean foreign and now conjures up weird images of MiB and ET.
Obviously, there is a political subtext to all of this. One person’s clarification is another’s euphemism.
AP style on this is to prefer this middle ground: illegal immigrant. It probably dissatisfies many people, but to me it’s a fair compromise. Illegal is illegal, regardless of whether it’s criminal or civil laws that are at issue, and immigrant is a humanizing term that reminds everyone that we are talking about people, not bizarre life forms from outer space.
Your host is Ken Otterbourg, the managing editor at the Winston-Salem Journal. It's a forum to discuss the media, from
There’s an online poll related to this post here.
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Joe Murphy
Senior Content Producer
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I just looked at the online poll Joe mentioned. As I expected, the fewest participants favored “undocumented immigrant,” which is the term I favor. (Thank heaven the “alien” thing is being addressed by the AP. “Aliens” come from Mars.) The problem exists due to racism. I say this because even the AP refuses, at this time, to adopt the term Hispanics themselves prefer. Use of a given word (noun or adjective-noun combination)often indicates opinion as to how the people named by the word ought to be treated. To use a cliché, our (collective) “slip is showing.” I don’t say this often, but Bush is right concerning citizenship for people who have come to the US to find a better way of life for themselves and their families.
The term “immigrant” suggests a person who wishes to move to another location permanently. The term “alien” refers to a person who is a citizen of another country, but is in your country. The term existed long before anyone suspected that there might be other beings out among the stars. The term “undocumented” refers to the fact that many of these workers do not possess the proper certification to work or even be allowed in this country. “Illegal alien” is the correct term which describes the status of these people. However, if they are working, they are “undocumented workers” as well. “Illegal immigrant” is a contradictory term. Now after this explanation of definitions I must say I strongly support the bill that was approved by the Senate Judiciary committee. Except for American Indians and most Black American, the rest of us descended from immigrants seeking an opportunity for a better life. If we deny others the same chance, we are hypocrites.
I have no problem with folks coming to the USA to better themselves. But, they should do it legally. They should be required to immediately register for tax status. Then, they should be forced to pay some portion of taxes like U.S. citizens. There are too many free loaders that are legal aliens. We do not need more illegal aliens as free loaders. Yes, illegal alien is the right term to use. Our forefathers fought to give us our citizenship, so why is it wrong to require people from other countries to adhere to our tax, judical and business codes. Look at the problems that the language barrier has caused our schools. Now there are even spanish interpreters for the DMV for the illegals to get there drivers licenses. Let folks that don’t speak english learn to communicate in english before they can obtain drivers licenses and citizenship. Effective communication in english should be a prerequisite for entrance into or society if they plan to work, live and especially go to school in the USA. Not to mention the drain on the auto insurance business for uninsured drivers that are involved in accidents. Many of the illegal aliens drive with no licenses.
regardless of what you call it and I do not mean to be mean or uncompassionate,,,,illegal remains illegal and as you may have noticed the students of such walked out of class to demonstrate which is following the example of their parents and elders. Children follow example not do as I say and not as I do. I am well aware this is much more complicated and deep thanwe can cover here, however; my children and us lived through the so called peace demonstrators in an area that resulted in base closure for more years than anyof us want to recall and illegal was interpreted as illegal or else one leaves suspicion of the word legal, justice, and other such backbones of this country you see. I am sure there are people in Sudan and other places who would love to trade places with these people right about now even if they were to be sent home as a result. Sorry it it just my opinion and a thought.
CaddyBoy, you said it all. I agree 100%.If people want to come here for a better life...then come, but do it right. No one should be rewarded for doing wrong. Do it right, then acclimate to the American life, which means learn English. It’s not a racist thing to say; look at all of the Japanese, Chinese, and European folks that come here; they learn our language. Hispanics should too.
Helen states that she prefers the term “undocumented immigrant”.
While many immigrants may be undocumented, Ken’s post is about “what to call the people in the United States who are not legally entitled to be here”.
If an individual did not enter the country using legal means, they are here illegally - plain and simple.
The use of the term “illegal” is not only accurate but it helps to create and maintain an important distinction between those coming to the US with the intent of living within the law and values of our society and those who do not.
I have no issue with people wanting to come to the US for work. Frankly, we need the workforce if we’re going to remain competitive in the global market. Plus, let’s admit it, the salsa aisle in the grocery is quickly becoming everyone’s favorite.
The incredible challenge before us is to find an means of sealing our borders, creating an effective system of readily allowing legally documented workers into the US, fairly dealing with the millions of undocumented workers already here and insuring that the American taxpayers aren’t left footing the bill for illegal immigrants’ use of local resources and services.
That’s one tall order.
I prefer the term criminal trespasser or foreign invader. This is not a racial issue, this is strictly about following the law as it now stands. We must enforce our laws or we will have anarchy as evidenced by the US flag flying upside down in California today.
No one seems to understand how much this is costing and is going to cost us in tax dollars. The social structure of or country is already burdened with all types of programs. And, are these people that we see protesting the pending immigration action here legally or illegally? Why is it so hard for folks to understand legality? Am I correct that the folks that are here illegally pay no tax? But, we cannot refuse them medical treatment. If that be the case maybe we as legal citizens should all refuse to pay our taxes this year. How far would that bird fly? Am I correct that the folks that are here illegally pay no taxes but our schools have to cater to their inability to speak our language. North Carolina has one of the highest influx of illegal hispanic immigration in the nation. Wake up folks! You can look at our school system and see the detriment that is occuring. Understand that our nation is quickly becoming under siege.
And even though sympathy for the cause and families and especially the children let us not forget the pictures of most the children show round happy faces, healthy little people which of course is a good thing but when one views pictures of the bloated stomachs of the children starving to death, it sort of wipes out the sympathy factor. Just an observation and may none of us ever have to eat our words or regret we spoke out in the Us.
To me It’s all the same. Illegal Immigrant or alien fits. I suppose Undocumented Worker is just the Politically Correct thing to say. I can truly understand why people want to come here, we are so blessed to be able to live in the USA! And lets face it, unless you are 100% American Indian, somewhere back in our family tree...we all came here one way or another. With that said, I am terribly upset that I am paying for all. If the tax situation is true… then it costs me a great deal. It costs me b/c I actually pay taxes. It costs me b/c I actually pay for my kids lunch at school. I know hispanic kids who don’t bother to bring school supplies and have I’ve been told that the school gives them bookbags & supplies every year. For those who are appalled at our views...I’d bet good money that they have the financial means to ensure that their families live no where near heavily populated hispanic communities. After 6 generations of living in a certain area...We are looking to move. Sofas on the front porch, chickens in the yard, gang kids roaming the street, spray painting in the streets, people walking all up in your yard, kids unsupervised until way after dark and the fact that hardly no one speaks english..just isn’t how we’d planned to raise the kids. I believe people should pay their own way (immigrants or people who have lived here forever) and speak english. Government assistance and Medical write-off plans are for those who can truly not help themselves.
Ah yes, the person above hits one of the nails on the head with the problem. Not all are like that but it can and does happen. Now she brought up another consideration: think about this. 88,000 in Los Angeles they quoted the other day on Tv and Iforget the amount in another heavily populated area with these people who will do work Americans won’t do, but it was a significant amount and the North Carolina Governor gives the impression that state will just dry up and blow away if they all leave...hmmm,what a predictament and how did it go so far and get so out of control..but that was not the point I wanted to give you to think about......what if? What if they become the majority as I have heard it referred to as the United States of Mexico? Should the rest of us start wondering what reservation we might be placed on like the original American Indian occupants of this great land???Revenge for the American Indian perhaps??Doesn’t sound good does it? Like I said it is so much more complicated than can be covered here but at least we have tried to not get personal and tried to stick to the issue. It is not the people per se we are objecting to I hope but the issue and how to solve it.
Right is right, and wrong is ILLEGAL! Something is terribly wrong when the government says we should reward ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS for breaking the LAW ! Not only are our BORDERS BROKEN, so is our GOVERNMENT! “WAKE UP WASHINGTON”!!!
Our country is taxed to the hilt with these people. For those who think it’s alright to have all these illegals ruining this country, start leaving your doors unlocked at night, then when someone breaks in just go ahead and let them take over your home, let the ILLEGALS tell you how to run your house, what laws to change etc. It’s gotten way out of control. These people are taxing our schools, hospitals, roads, welfare, foodstamps, and enviroment in the worst way. Every illegal you see means one less job there for our own people. I’m sorry that were they come from is so bad. I would quailify as poor but that doesn’t give me a right to go to a nice house someone else paid for, that someone else built and move in and disregard the laws and worse try to change the laws. Illegal immagrants telling us to change our laws!!!! What in the name of God is wrong with folks in this country? Better start seeing the reality of this situation before your nice comfratable way of life is gone forever.
http://weneedafence.com/
http://weneedafence.com/petition.asp
immigration Websites
American Border Patrol http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/
American Patrol http://www.americanpatrol.com/
Citizens for a Constitutional Republic http://www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com/
Center for Immigration Studies (CIS)
http://www.cis.org
Federation for American Immigration Reform http://www.fairus.org
NumbersUSA http://www.numbersusa.com
http://www.americanpatrol.com/POLLS/Polls.html
There will always be defenders of the status quo, just as there will always be “wars and rumors of wars.” Bad laws need to be changed. The “black codes” that made it illegal for citizens of northern states to aid runaway slaves have been changed. The “Jim Crow” laws that insisted upon so-called “separate but equal” facilities for blacks and whites have been changed. Unfair poll taxes have been eliminated. And the laws that prevent immigrants from coming to the US legally and applying for citizenship need to be changed. It is greed that fights along the border: power not morality. It is the belief that people born in the USA are somehow better than those born south of our border. This belief is due to ignorance and fear (and a lack of faith) that we will not get our “fair share,” that there is not enough to feed us all. God, Who loves everyone, calls this attitude “sin.”
Would you leave your house open at all hours so folks could come in take,destroy, etc. Imagine if the people breaking into your home start protest that the laws of YOUR HOME were changed to accomodate them? Insane to even think. It is the same thing. I’m not speaking for WHITE AMERICA I’m speaking for Americans white,yellow,green whatever the key word is AMERICAN period. IF YOU DON’T PROTECT YOUR HOME YOU MAY AS WELL GIVE IT AWAY!
Being a person who likes long term look at situations and not just short term band aid--let’s progress ahead past the current issue. These people the discussion is so focused u[on
uponin many cases, and by their own admission-want to stay in the U>S. to make a better life for themselves and their families, have ambition, have a hunger for money, good work ethic on the whole, stability, security, etc--progress. Gast forward a few years! Solution is found to the problem they are ALL now legal, maybe even citizens of the U.S. or “Americans” now-so by their own words--can no longer DO the work they USED to be happy to do because “Americans” will NOT and DO NOT do such work! NOW WHAT or rather NOW WHO????You KNOW they do NOT want their American children performing the Jobs they DID!! See--it’s a wee bit more complicated than it first appears----
As for the tax issue-you have to MAKE enough money before you pay taxes. There are legal ways to cut one’s taxes when one is blessed with higher pay or however it occurs....but if you dothe jobs most American will not do, then you are not making the type of money where youwill pay much taxes anyway especially when compared to the amount of services they consume or use. That is the big issue with WalMart right n ow isn’t it. wanting the States to pick up more and more of medical costs for their employees so they can keep providing jobs and be proud and project a good employer image.
continued from above. Try to remember also the money earned in U.S. in many cases does not stay here, it is sent back home to their families.Therefore the benefit to the economy here is negligible compared to the services they use and like a gerbil in a plastic ball...we just went around in a circle and got nowhere!!
The governor of the state of North Carolina, not that long ago, cried in their beer so to speak about the cigarette suits that most assuredly would wipe out his state if it went the way the people filing suit wanted it to go. That did not occur, the suit was setttled and North Carolina did not disappear. Now, the statement has been made that if the illegal workers are deported, his state will again most assuredly disappear with out them as Americans donot want to do the labor required by the job supplying industry in his state....what again?????? But the state of North Carolina has just opened the door for state lottery to operate in tht state and casinos will not be far behind and so apparantly the state of North Carolina is NOT going to disappear again as predicted???Hmmm,,,lots of food for thought there isn’t there???
There are no benifits with this mexican invasion. There are only a few people who LIKE the fact that we’ve been invaded, contractors, resturants etc. Their greed will destroy this country and they do not care!
Remembering That America Was Founded On Immigration (See http://racerelations.about.com/b/a/255569.htm?nl=1 )
See http://helenl.wordpress.com/2006/04/04/carmelitas-here/ for an alternate use of the word alien.
http://www.immigrationreform.org/Statistics.htm
Free faxes to your senators. Take action now!
ttp://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.numbersusa.com/index
The Illegal Immigration Problem is all about greed! Washington has yet to do anything as far as passing an IMMIGRATION BILL, and I think most U.S. citizens agree this want happen anytime soon! Small time contractors are making money by paying the Illegals cheaper wages, under the table, and the Illegal problems continue to escalate as do the ILLEGALS. They keep coming,and having babies that are U.S. citizens when born, and if they can’t pay the hospital bills the good old U.S. TAX payers are forced to! Does the U.S. have enough money to support ALL of MEXICO? The Mexican Illegals are also going to take over the jobs the Baby Boomers leave when they retire. Yeah, Sure with no education, most Baby Boomers have college educations, and drive expensive cars! GET REAL WASHINGTON!
http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/
http://www.petitionusa.com/index.php?module=OLPetition&func=view&id=70
Sign the petition to “Enforce our Immigration Laws” by visiting the following link:
http://www.petitionusa.com/petition_immigration
Then follow the prompts and send a personalized blast fax to your Congressman and Senators and let them know how you feel!
Also, keep up to date with the latest on the immigration debate by visiting Conservative Outpost at:
http://www.conservativeoutpost.com
Just wondering would it be ok if people broke in your home.
That’s what illegals do! They come into OUR HOME, take OUR JOBS, OUR RESOURCES, The list goes on................................................................
Do you want 12 million UNIVITED GUEST IN YOUR HOME?
Look at the big picture, anyone that is able to count can see where this country is headed due to the illegal immagrant population problem.
USA is on the verge of being the world’s largest GANG INFESTED/DRUG INFESTED SLUM!
Look out for Americans first!!!!!!
Then worry about all these other poor souls.
JUST BECAUSE WE BUILT A NICE SOCIETY DOES NOT AUTOMATICLY GRANT ANYONE THE RIGHT TO JUST UP MOVE IN, TELL US WHAT LAWS NEED TO BE CHANGED, WHAT LANGUAGE WE NEED TO TEACH/SPEAK IT!!!
WHAT KIND OF LOGIC IS THAT???????????????????
I DON’T BUY THAT “THEY’LL DO THE JOBS AMERICANS WILL NOT DO” CRAP! AMERICANS WILL DO THEM BUT THE GREEDY BASTARDS WILL NOT PAY US LIKE AMERICANS!!!!!! WE ALL WORK HARD!!!!!!!!! IT WAS US THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO BUILT THIS SOCIETY.
This is getting way out of hand. I say that if the government does not correct this situation soon we should remember each and every offical come election. This is insane. I read where a group of hispanic students in Charlotte walked out of class and the princapal gave them an excused absence. Give me a break. We had better get this under control or we will be controled by the Mexicians.
It is not by chance that these demonstrations have come during Holy Week. This thread began fifteen days ago, as a discussion of the language used to describe people who are in the US illegally, but it has escalated into tirades of racism by folks who are afraid they will loose their way of life. Why live with such fear? Does the whole earth not belong to God? Could the native peoples not have mouthed the same fears as Europeans (our ancestors) invaded their land? Must we learn nothing from history? Must we hate and fight forever? Who is my brother? Did the cross mean nothing? And don’t even try to tell me Christianity is for indiviaduals but nations can act as they will!
Legality means in accordance with the law. Not all laws are good laws. (See my entry of April 1 for examples of bad laws.) Racism (or any other kind of –ism for that matter) means that those in power act to keep those without power in their place by every means possible, including the passing of bad laws. Racism means that we do not judge individuals (“by the content of their character,” as Martin Luther King said), but that we group them by ethnicity. Racism is a result of ignorance and fear and the false belief that one group of people is superior to another. Not all persons who are in the US illegally are morally bankrupt. Most (but not all) “illegal immigrants” come from “south on the border” (a.k.a. Mexico and a few islands). “Send ‘em all back” sounds like mass condemnation to me. Read what black writers have written to get a taste of what it feels like to be on the underside. Ken has been kind enough to allow this discussion to continue a long time and to digress from its original purpose. It is not my job nor the purpose of this blog to convince people to believe anything. When I ask questions, they are for the purpose of contemplation. The internet holds a wealth of knowledge, as does the public library. Anyone who wants to stop being a racist can see what this requires. This is my last post to this thread. Somebody else can have the last word.
Helen
I will agree with one thing you posted,legality does mean in accordance with the law. Why not make the border issue legal? You still have not admitted that what these folks are doing is criminal. Why?
Folks like Helen Loose are sadly misguided!
And YES WE ARE UPSET ABOUT LOSING OUR WAY OF LIFE!
ITS WHAT WE FOUGHT AND DIED FOR!
IT WOULD BE SO NICE TO BE ABLE TO SEND FOLKS LIKE YOU TO CALIFONIA, NEVADA, TEXAS MAYBE THEN YOU WILL SEE THE AMOUNT OF DAMAGE THESE CRIMINALS HAVE REALLY DONE!
LEAVE YOUR DOORS UNLOCKED SO WE CAN LET THE ILLEGAL IMMAGRANTS KNOW THAT PEOPLE SUCH AS YOURSELF BELIVE IT IS OK TO COME IN AND TAKE WHAT YOU WANT, TRASH UP YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS ETC..
YOU MUST LIVE IN A DREAM WORLD OR AT LEAST A LONG WAY AWAWY FROM THE MEXICAN POPULATION!
HAVE YOU EVEN TRIED TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS?
http://www.numbersusa.com/index
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!
MEXICANS HAVN’T BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO EARN THE RACE CARD YET!
Picture yourself as an illegal alien in an America where the existing laws are enforced, border patrol is allowed to do their job, employers are fined, benefits have been restricted, and the local police are now involved. Are you getting the message?
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=8117
http://denver.craigslist.org/rnr/150573888.html
We can argue all day, but my belief is that we need to start
by closing the borders! We must realize that sending the illegal aliens won’t work just due to the monies required to
care out such a scheme. Receiving them would be an ardous
task that would likely result in another agency. I would
suggest that we stop all benefits to illegal aliens except
medical treatment for life threatening situations. We must
remember this people are illegal(we are suppose to be a nation of law - a republic), thus deserving of no
special benefits ie, food stamps, school enrollment, section
8 housing, free medical.
Those that would accept this people with open arms do so at
the peril of all. The Washington Times presents the case
for a take over of parts of this nation by illegal acivist.
Wake up America we are losing our rights and our elected officials are the problem they want votes - making illegals
legal will bring votes.
Sending them back WOULD WORK! eVERYONE THAT IS SENT BACK MEANS LESS CRIME,DRUGS, WELFARE BENIFITS AND MORE JOBS FOR AMERICANS. THERE ARE MANY CITIZENS THAT WOULD VOLUNTEER TO HELP RID THIS NATION OF THE PLAGUE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGINTS.
http://www.splcenter.org/center/petitions/petition.jsp
If we have not got satisfaction on this illegal immigration issue from the politicians then come this election we should vote them out. The majority of legal voters want the illegals out.
There are alot of other things at work. Like I said earlier, I can understand why one would want to become an American. Alot of the people are not interested in becoming Americans (hence the Mexican flags). Alot of the problem is Politics and Political Correctness. The gov’t won’t do anything because both sides are trying to expand their base. Even though the “illegals” may not be able to support them, their legal comrads will. Lets face it, Hispanics are the fastest growing group in America. I know most people mean well, but I can guarantee that most people who cannot imagine being opposed to illegal immigrants in our country....do NOT live and try to raise their kids in areas that have in recent years become over-run with illegals, drugs, loud parties, gangs, spray paint etc. Maybe if they had to live there for a while....they’d understand that it does effect our country - besides the Language and Taxes issues....
I just can’t afford to support EVERYONE!!!! (I pay taxes!)
There is another perspective to this permitted invasion of our country and it lies in “Globalization”. In reality for Globalization to work we as a prosperous nation must find a way to reduce ourselves to 3rd world status. What better way than to allow several million citizens of Mexico and other places to squat here as illegal aliens. Soon as we have already seen Globalization will put our productive people out of work and then when they can no longer pay the bills and taxes to support the non-producers (including most politicians), well then it will be Katy-Bar-The-Door. I know most of you are just snug as a bug with your heads in the ground, there is a bad time coming which will test the “real” and legal citizens of this country. If you do not know how to use a firearm learn and buy more ammo! What we are seeing is what you get when our so called leaders cease being Americans and seek to irradicate what so many Americans of all ethnic backgrounds fought to preserve “FREEDOM”
Here is a URL to send a letter or email free to our NC elected officials. Just copy and paste to your browser address line. Or click the link.
http://capwiz.com/sicminc/issues/alert/?alertid=8684076&type=CO
I will be checking on the status of people who work for contractors and others I employ to work ,cutting Grass,carpenter work or any other employment paid for by me. If there are hispanic workers,they had better have a legal green card or I will not let them start work.If someone hires illegals and I find out I will report them to immigration.
What a show of solidarity! That was Awesome! Mexicans do know how to stick together!!! Gangs roaming the streets, unsupervised adolescents, loud radio-mobiles blaring circus type music, horns a blowing, the ice cream truck that won’t go away, and 2/3 of the traffic in my area.....all gone yesterday! Thanks! If you were trying to remind me how my neighborhood was 10 years ago, you succeeded. We spent the evening outdoors and it was Wonderful! Can we do this again tomorrow?
Just for future reference, typically Americans don’t like being bullied. Not by our children, not by criminals, we just don’t.
But I do appreciate the nice day off you gave us!
In case you have been wondering why there is such a great push on by various Hispanic groups and others to remove the stigma of the “Illegal Alien” status and the clause making these people felons take the time to check out http://WWW.Sentencingproject.org, Felony Disenfranchisement laws in the United States. You will quickly see why polticians in particular (votes) do not want these people identified as felons. If the felony clause was to pass there would be no incentive for the most part for politicians to have any interest in this matter. That being said the only acceptable resolution is “arrest and deport”, anthing short of this gets you a “No” vote.
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